path: root/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090212.txt

21:00 <@scarabeus> ok sunshines, meeting time :P
21:00 <@hwoarang> is it time?
21:00 <@scarabeus> !herd kde
21:00 *    yngwin  kicks Willikins
21:00 <@scarabeus> i am going to hurt willikins...
21:00 <+wired> lmao
21:00 <@hwoarang> fail?
21:00 <+MrRat> wired: do you know the amarok qt-4.5 bug at all?
21:00 <@hwoarang> errr meeting time
21:00 <+wired> yeah i read a bug you posted earlier about a missing line
21:01 <@yngwin> i'll use this clone here
21:01 <@scarabeus> :]
21:01 <@hwoarang> ok who broke Willikins
21:01 <@scarabeus> but i want that herd
21:01 <@scarabeus> !herd kde
21:01 < arachnist> hwoarang: i did
21:01 < arachnist> ;)
21:01 <+MrRat> wired: http://rafb.net/p/g1msai72.html
21:01 <@scarabeus> !herd qt
21:01 <@hwoarang> :D
21:01 <+wired> !herd kde
21:01 <@scarabeus> ok the other route
21:01 <+wired> ^_^
21:01 <+MrRat> wired, thats it, just one line
21:02 <+wired> alright - does that work with 4.4.2 as well?
21:02 <+MrRat> wired: but the file is not generated until about 10% of the build when qtscriptgenerator runs
21:02 <@scarabeus> alexxy, bonsaikitten, cryos, hwoarang, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, tampakrap, yngwin, dagger_, krytzz, MrRat, reavertm, Sput, wired
21:02 <@scarabeus> meeting
21:02 <@scarabeus> who is around
21:02 *    alexxy  here
21:02 * tampakrap
21:02 *     wired  ^_^
21:02 <+Sput> see above
21:02 *  hwoarang  *
21:02 *    yngwin  is a square
21:03 <+MrRat> wired: so when the file is generated, i can edit it and back out of the directory and build is success
21:03 <+krytzz> that joke is OLD :p
21:03 *  reavertm  reporting
21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> Sput: You're missing people :P
21:03 * jmbsvicet  waves hand
21:03 <@yngwin> krytzz: so am i ;)
21:03 <+wired> MrRat: i see
21:03 <+Sput> I'm what?
21:03 <+Sput> mostly I'm missing alcohol and inspiration right now
21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> Sput: Not in FOSDEM? ;)
21:03 <+wired> MrRat: i'll check it out after the meeting
21:04 *    yngwin  notes that caleb and carlo are missing as usual
21:04 <@scarabeus> ok so are we waiting on somebody else
21:04 <@scarabeus> i wrote carlo a mail
21:04 <@scarabeus> asking him to drop at least for volte :(
21:04 <@tampakrap> cryos also said he will probably be away
21:04 <+wired> we'll give him the logs ^_^
21:05 <@scarabeus> i know about those missing i am asking if we are waiting on somebody more?
21:05 <@yngwin> bonsaikitten?
21:05 <@scarabeus> yup right
21:05 <@scarabeus> this one i would like to see :P
21:05 <@scarabeus> !lastspoke bonsaikitten
21:06 <@scarabeus> ok that bot actualy dont work now
21:06 <@hwoarang> stupid bots
21:06 -- rangerpb- is now known as rangerhomezzz
21:06 <@scarabeus> ok i give him 4 minutes (agreed?)
21:06 <@tampakrap> ok
21:06 <@hwoarang> k
21:06 <@tampakrap> should i call him? :)
21:06 <@scarabeus> so he has 10 minutes after meeting start to show up :]
21:06 <@scarabeus> :D
21:07 <@alexxy> ok
21:07 <@alexxy> bonsaikitten: !~!!!
21:07 <+krytzz> we count to ten, then shout as loud as we can
21:07 < kev009> what does use=raster for qt-gui?
21:07 <+wired> speeds things up
21:07 <+MrRat> kev009: speed!
21:07 <@scarabeus> krytzz: i would wake teh kids
21:07 <+krytzz> kev009 but breaks compositing  :p
21:08 *  hwoarang  walks around
21:08 * scarabeus  prepares editor and stuff for volting and so on :]
21:09 <@hwoarang> time is up
21:09 *     wired  is building live qt and kde ^_^
21:10 <@scarabeus> actualy 50 secs
21:10 <@scarabeus> now up
21:10 <@scarabeus> ok
21:10 < kev009> krytzz: is there a document that expalins how compositing breaks?
21:10 <+reavertm> kev009 later please
21:10 <@scarabeus> i officialy start february gentoo kde meeting in year 2009
21:10 <@scarabeus> :}
21:10 <@scarabeus> so first subject is review of old one
21:11 <@scarabeus> i think we did great job with 4.2 and we deserve some cookies :]
21:11 <@scarabeus> only thing that is missing from last month summary is pyqt/pykde and printing
21:11 <+krytzz> yeah, it was great
21:11 <@scarabeus> so how is the printing status reavertm
21:11 <@scarabeus> only testing needed or some more coding?
21:11 <+reavertm> printing status - it's reportedly working fine
21:12 <@tampakrap> so can we add it to the tree?
21:12 <+reavertm> we need maintainer
21:12 <@scarabeus> ok process will be 1 week in overlay, and then the main tree
21:12 <@scarabeus> reavertm: that is no problem
21:12 <@scarabeus> we are kde herd
21:12 <@scarabeus> we became maintainer
21:12 <@tampakrap> right
21:12 <+reavertm> system-config-printer and pycups are part of leftwovers after Donnie
21:12 <@scarabeus> i know
21:13 <+reavertm> they are straight dependecies for out printing kde stuff
21:13 <@scarabeus> but if it is fixed and working for us we canmaintain
21:13 <@scarabeus> ok there are no issues, so feel free to remove the mask from it in overlay :]
21:13 <@alexxy> scarabeus: also we should unmask networkmanager/policykit
21:13 <+reavertm> and there is one new ebuild that possibly needs to be perfected with some python deps as well - hal-cups-info (in overlay)
21:13 <@scarabeus> alexxy: that is negative my friend
21:13 <@scarabeus> we get to that
21:13 <@tampakrap> we can also start maintaining them and ask in -dev if there are any others intrested in maintaining
21:13 <+reavertm> (it's printer-applet dep)
21:13 <@jmbsvicetto> We could ask the printing herd if they want to co-maintain it
21:13 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: there is no printing herd
21:14 <@scarabeus> really i looked
21:14 <@scarabeus> they are mostly dead
21:14 <@jmbsvicetto> ok
21:14 <@jmbsvicetto> Where's tgur?
21:14 <@yngwin> paper is so last century :p
21:14 <@scarabeus> i have no clue
21:14 <@tampakrap> !seen tgurr
21:14 < Willikins> tampakrap: tgurr was last seen 6 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes and 14 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:14 < Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Health troubles.
21:14 <@jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: ok, thanks for the info
21:14 <@tampakrap> Philantrop: thanks
21:14 <@jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Do you know if he's still interested in printing packages?
21:15 < Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Mostly in cups and friends, yes.
21:16 <@scarabeus> ok in that case reavertm should speak to him :]
21:16 <@scarabeus> ok we can wait with printing on him :]
21:16 <@scarabeus> hope his sickness is not serious and he will get well soon :]
21:18 <@scarabeus> ok one more question for the last meeting
21:18 <@scarabeus> did somebody sent that mail about kde3?
21:18 <@yngwin> i havent seen any
21:18 <@scarabeus> that we actualy ask for help on them
21:18 <@scarabeus> tampakrap: so it will be your responsibility i guess
21:18 <@tampakrap> ok
21:19 <@tampakrap> i'll also talk with carlo about this
21:19 <@jmbsvicetto> oh, there was a user that had a comment in my blog entry pleading for us not to drop kde3
21:19 <@scarabeus> we are not droping it :]
21:19 <@scarabeus> at least for now :]
21:19 <+reavertm> we're droping 4.1 :)
21:19 <+reavertm> (are we?)
21:19 <@scarabeus> and next year i guess
21:19 <@scarabeus> yup we are
21:19 <@scarabeus> as said reaver
21:19 <@scarabeus> anyone is against it?
21:20 <@scarabeus> i wolte for drop :]
21:20 <@hwoarang> +1
21:20 <@tampakrap> drop
21:20 <+reavertm> kill it
21:20 <+wired> farewell
21:20 <@yngwin> 4.1? yes
21:20 <+Sput> +1
21:20 <@scarabeus> 4.1 drop are we speaking about :] not the 3.5 :]
21:20 <@scarabeus> yngwin: ^
21:20 <@yngwin> :)
21:20 <+wired> nobody will miss it anyway ^_^
21:20 <@jmbsvicetto> bye bye 4.1
21:20 < termite47384> hwoarang, MrRat: amarok fix0red?
21:20 <@scarabeus> ok super
21:21 <@hwoarang> termite47384 will get to it
21:21 <+Sput> absolutely no need to keep that one around
21:21 <@scarabeus> soo what is on schedule? ah jmbsvicetto you are :]
21:21 < termite47384> sorry, I was away and wasn't sure if you had already
21:21 <@hwoarang> \o/
21:21 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: :P
21:21 <@scarabeus> btw who will do the drop
21:21 <@scarabeus> alexxy: ?
21:21 <@jmbsvicetto> 4.1?
21:21 <@scarabeus> yup
21:21 <@scarabeus> the drop
21:21 <@tampakrap> may I?
21:21 <@jmbsvicetto> sure
21:21 <@scarabeus> tampakrap: if you want :]
21:21 <+reavertm> still we need to sort packages that may explicitly depend on it
21:22 <+reavertm> so called kde-misc
21:22 <@scarabeus> there are none in the tree :]
21:22 <@tampakrap> of course
21:22 <@scarabeus> tested/fixed
21:22 <+wired> there are
21:22 <+wired> i.e. lancelot-menu
21:22 <@tampakrap> let's double check to be sure
21:22 <@scarabeus> only the powerdevil and lancelot
21:22 <@scarabeus> :]
21:22 <@scarabeus> ok
21:22 <@scarabeus> lets go and volte the leader as we promised
21:22 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: looks like you are the only aplicant
21:22 < Philantrop> *VOTE*. It's *vote*.
21:23 <@tampakrap> i'll drop it in weekend as i'll be away tomorrow (exams)
21:23 <@scarabeus> typo is still the typo
21:23 <+MrRat> The volte is a very small circle that is used in the training of a horse
21:23 <+MrRat> :)
21:23 <+reavertm> could anyone nlighten me, what exactly is this voting for?
21:23 <+wired> o_o MrRat
21:23 <@scarabeus> reavertm: kde team leader
21:23 <@scarabeus> gentoo kde team leader
21:24 <+reavertm> ah, I got confused with Donnie stepping out from desktop lead
21:24 <@scarabeus> so jmbsvicetto why we should volte for you, some promotial i guess :]
21:24 <+reavertm> *down
21:24 <@scarabeus> again
21:24 <@scarabeus> why the crap i write volte
21:24 <@scarabeus> i know it is vote :P
21:24 < dberkholz> well. i can't really step out till someone else steps in
21:24 < dberkholz> till then, i make a great figurehead
21:24 <@yngwin> :)
21:25 <@scarabeus> :D
21:25 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hmm, because you were impressed with me in FOSDEM? ;)
21:25 <@scarabeus> :]
21:25 <+reavertm> ok, +1 on Jorge
21:25 <@yngwin> +1
21:26 <@alexxy> scarabeus: yep =) i can drop 4.1.x
21:26 <+krytzz> i dont know if i have the right to vote but, +1
21:26 <+Sput> _1
21:26 <@scarabeus> alexxy: too late :]
21:26 <+Sput> eh
21:26 <+Sput> +1
21:26 <@hwoarang> +1
21:26 <+wired> +1
21:26 <@alexxy> and i vote for jmbsvicetto to be kde lead
21:26 <@scarabeus> actualy it counts only from devs :}
21:26 < rane> gratz jmbsvicetto
21:26 <@scarabeus> but i suggest the other way
21:26 <@jmbsvicetto> dberkholz: You make much more than a figurehead, but we're very happy with your figurehead ;)
21:26 <@scarabeus> who is against
21:26 <+Sput> meh, I can still give my moral support :)
21:26 <@jmbsvicetto> rane: :)
21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: you might want to count the positive votes ;)
21:27 <@scarabeus> and ftr i volte for him too
21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hehe (volte) ;)
21:27 <@tampakrap> jmbsvicetto++
21:27 *      Sput  applies 240 volts to scarabeus
21:27 <@scarabeus> sdamn
21:27 <+wired> lmao
21:27 <+MrRat> haha
21:27 <@scarabeus> ok you have 5 votes now
21:27 <+wired> beat a typo with a typo, thats something ^_^
21:28 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Don't know if you want to count deathwing00's vote
21:28 <@scarabeus> oh right 6
21:28 <+MrRat> +1
21:28 <+MrRat> count me
21:28 <@scarabeus> hwoarang: ping dude
21:28 <@hwoarang> i did say +1
21:29 <@hwoarang> :)
21:29 <@scarabeus> ok 7
21:29 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: who's missing? bonsaikitten, cryo?
21:29 <@scarabeus> yup
21:29 <@jmbsvicetto> c/cryo/cryos/
21:29 <@scarabeus> we can count kittens volte on fosdem?
21:29 <@tampakrap> keytoaster and tgurr
21:29 <@tampakrap> and carlo
21:30 <@yngwin> and caleb
21:30 <+reavertm> ok, lets' go further - 7 is enough already :)
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> and corsair and genstef if we look at the kde page
21:30 <@scarabeus> those are kde devs?
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> according to the page
21:30 <@hwoarang> are they active or smtg?
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> Not in a long time, afaik
21:30 <@scarabeus> actualy i remember somebody promised that he will clean that up :]
21:31 <@jmbsvicetto> So, do I get to wear the KDE royal crown or what? ;)
21:31 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ok you are the leader
21:31 <@hwoarang> \o/
21:31 <@scarabeus> nobody volted against actualy :]
21:31 <@yngwin> hail jmbsvicetto
21:31 <@jmbsvicetto> :)
21:31 * scarabeus  bows in front of our new leader
21:31 <@tampakrap> congratulations!!
21:31 <@hwoarang> and as a leader you should provide us some free beers
21:31 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: btw you have to update the page yourself, i hate cvs :]
21:31 <@jmbsvicetto> Thanks for the confidence guys
21:31 <+krytzz> right
21:31 <@alexxy> he he =)
21:31 <@jmbsvicetto> :)
21:32 <@alexxy> congratulations jmbsvicetto
21:32 <@tampakrap> POP *champagne*
21:32 <@yngwin> i can update the webpage
21:32 <@yngwin> need to edit it anyway
21:32 <@jmbsvicet> yngwin: thanks
21:32 <@yngwin> np
21:33 <@scarabeus> ok this was actualy funniest part of the meeting
21:33 <@scarabeus> things that will came are not that nice
21:33 <@alexxy> yep
21:33 <@yngwin> so grab another beer
21:34 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: so I guess I can just leave now ;)
21:34 <@scarabeus> grm
21:34 <@scarabeus> actualy you should be leading the discussion now ;P
21:34 <@jmbsvicetto> hehed
21:34 <@scarabeus> ok lets start with upstream and prefixing thingie
21:34 <@scarabeus> i think that is something you have something to say about :]
21:35 <+reavertm> hmm? please introduce topic
21:35 <+reavertm> ah, kdeprefixing
21:35 <+reavertm> but what part of exactly?
21:35 <@tampakrap> i'll change topic
21:36 <+reavertm> no noe
21:36 <@scarabeus> not kdeprefixing
21:36 tampakrap changed the topic of #gentoo-kde to: Official gentoo-kde project channel | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | Next meeting 12/02/2009@20:00 UTC |Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help us? Ask channel staff for info | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | jmbsvicetto is the new leader!!
21:36 <@scarabeus> instaling multiple kde versions in one prefix
21:36 <+reavertm> hmm, how?
21:36 <+reavertm> elaborate please :)
21:36 <@scarabeus> that what jorge has to do
21:36 <@scarabeus> i have not much clue
21:36 jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-kde to: Official gentoo-kde project channel | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | meeting: now - multiple installs under 1 prefix |Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help us? Ask channel staff for info | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | jmbsvicetto is the new leader!!
21:37 <+reavertm> I would like to hear what's all about first
21:37 <@jmbsvicetto> ok
21:37 <@jmbsvicetto> We were talking in FOSDEM that the real solution to our kdeprefix issues is to get KDE support for multiple versions in the same prefix
21:38 <+reavertm> eselect?
21:38 <@jmbsvicetto> To get that, we'll need versioned libs and we could use versioned apps (possibly with some symlinks to choose the default versions to use)
21:38 <@alexxy> hmm
21:38 *  reavertm  shuts up
21:38 <@alexxy> that will be good
21:38 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: that was one option presented
21:38 <@scarabeus> which sounds most reasonable
21:38 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I thought it wasn't the best option - at least according to users. But if we get the versioned libs+apps, than it could be a good solution
21:38 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: what was another option?
21:39 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: the eselect would only select the "default" version
21:39 <+reavertm> what do you mean - versioned libs/apps
21:39 --rangerhom- is now known as rangerpb
21:39 <@scarabeus> sonames pn-version and so on
21:39 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: you mean that konsoel would be konsole-4.2.0 ?
21:39 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: having kwrite-4.1 or libkdeinit4_kinfocenter.so.4.2.0
21:40 <@scarabeus> alexxy: only 4.2
21:40 *      Sput  wouldn't add support for point releases
21:40 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: probably 4.2
21:40 <@scarabeus> :}
21:40 <@alexxy> hmm
21:40 <+wired> upstream is willing to do something like that?
21:40 <+Sput> though this will of course screw up tab completion :(
21:40 <@scarabeus> upstream is willing to accept our patches for that
21:40 <+Sput> no more automatic space!
21:40 <+Sput> ooh, upstream should do that, rather than us?
21:40 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: the idea of the symlinks would be to have a konsole that would point to the version the user wants. Anyone using 4.2 as their default version, could still run 4.1 with konsole-4.1 or live with konsole-live
21:41 <@alexxy> ok
21:41 <+wired> this sounds so much cleaner than kdeprefix
21:41 <@alexxy> what will be with .desktop files?
21:41 <@jmbsvicetto> Sput: That would be the best option, but it doesn't seem likely they'll want to do it by themselves
21:41 <+reavertm> and messy
21:41 <+reavertm> what about shared data?
21:41 <+Sput> also this would allow other distros (with no concept of slotted installs) to support multiple versions easily
21:41 <@jmbsvicetto> Sput: They were however somewhat open to accept our patches to get it done
21:42 <@tampakrap> alexxy and reavertm made some good points
21:42 <+reavertm> like kbuildsysoca area of interest?
21:42 <@scarabeus> reavertm: actualy it is easy to suffix any filename with cmake so it can be all sufixed correctly
21:42 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: We could have /usr/share/kde/<version>/* or /usr/share/kde/<pkg>-<version>
21:43 <+reavertm> for me it's just a rehash of kdeprefix but with messed up files and separate - swtitched shared data areas
21:43 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: kdeprefix was never the best option. It was just the easy way to get around the fact that kde doesn't version libs/apps
21:43 <+reavertm> it would be easier to just eselect using kdeprefix
21:43 <@scarabeus> actualy this one would mean pretty nice elimination of kdeprefix really
21:43 <@jmbsvicetto> yes
21:44 <+reavertm> and actualy selected version of KDE would be target destination of actually built kde-misc package
21:44 <@scarabeus> reavertm: dependency nightmare
21:44 <@scarabeus> really
21:44 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: that seems worse, imho
21:45 <+reavertm> scarabeus we have deps already set per ebuild
21:45 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: Instead, with this proposal, kde-misc packages could link directly the unversioned deps
21:45 <@alexxy> ohh
21:45 <@alexxy> deps hell
21:45 <@scarabeus> reavertm: as said jmbsvicetto ^^
21:45 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The issue it raises is that KDE keeps breaking ABI which would break the packages
21:45 <@scarabeus> you could with this enable easy linking and it would be correct
21:45 <+Sput> well, easiest would just be going back to good old slots. :>
21:45 <@scarabeus> Sput: grm
21:45 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: what will be with misc apps that only works with for example kde>=4.3
21:45 <@jmbsvicetto> Sput: we have slots :P
21:46 <@scarabeus> they link to the kdelibs.so-4.3.0
21:46 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: well, you're not going to like my answer, but *pkgconfig*
21:46 <@scarabeus> for example
21:46 <+Sput> jmbsvicetto: KDE is no longer supposed to break ABI
21:46 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: kdelibs-4.3 I would say
21:46 <@scarabeus> or pkgconfig is even better :]
21:46 <@scarabeus> Sput: they did it.
21:46 <@scarabeus> so we can expect more
21:47 <@jmbsvicetto> What we can do in the future, is to be very active in the kde-packagers / kde-build mls and don't let them get away with ABI breakage
21:48 <@alexxy> hmm
21:48 <@jmbsvicetto> Now, who would like to work on this and does anyone have any ideas on how to get it started?
21:48 <@alexxy> so kde upstream will accept splitting of kde apps?
21:49 <+reavertm> where are kde-misc packages installed and are they subject to versioning as well?
21:49 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: They will start doing it for 4.3
21:49 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I would say /usr and yes
21:50 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: Perhaps only between major versions
21:50 <@alexxy> hmm
21:50 <@alexxy> thats will be good
21:50 <+reavertm> so the only thing that's to be done is switching XDG_DATA_DIRS?
21:50 <@alexxy> they idea to add svn rev to snapshots was bad
21:50 <@scarabeus> probably in basic
21:50 <@scarabeus> but also adding sonames and so on
21:50 <@scarabeus> alexxy: that is other point
21:50 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: scarabeus mailed them about it
21:50 <@scarabeus> i already sent the mail
21:50 <@scarabeus> but get no response
21:51 <@scarabeus> for 4 days now
21:51 <@scarabeus> so i think we need to push it more
21:51 <@scarabeus> where is the best place?
21:51 <+reavertm> ok, I have a question - how is versioning binaries going to be implemented?
21:51 <+reavertm> via symlinks or shell scripts that set proper env for them?
21:51 <+reavertm> (scripts means overhead)
21:52 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I think we should add the version when we install
21:52 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: We also need to write an eselect backend that can help manage the symlinks
21:54 <+reavertm> with eselect env may be switched right away - just like in java-config
21:54 <@scarabeus> btw you are planning way ahead i think, now we should think about who is willing to work on it :]
21:54 <+wired> jmbsvicetto: you said upstream will accept patches for versioning, wouldn't that eliminate the need for env switching?
21:54 <+reavertm> so only symlinks would be sufficient
21:54 * jmbsvicet  puts the crown and starts delegating
21:54 <@jmbsvicetto> ;)
21:55 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: dont look at me
21:55 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: If we want to have both around, we'll need the 2
21:55 <+reavertm> wired env switchig is XDG_DATA_DIRS at least
21:55 <@scarabeus> i will be busy with the other distro patches sharing
21:55 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: unless users are willing to run kwrite-4.1 and amarok-2, instead of kwrite and amarok
21:55 * bonsaikit  fell asleep ...
21:55 <+wired> if kde shipped kwrite-4.2 binary
21:55 <@jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: Got that bored? :P
21:55 <+wired> we would only need a symlink to make it run
21:56 <@scarabeus> bonsaikitten: tell me your volte ;P
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> lol
21:56 <@scarabeus> :]
21:56 <@scarabeus> i am just curious
21:56 <@scarabeus> he wont be included :D
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: yes, but that's what we need eselect for
21:56 <@bonsaikitten> I vote for freedom
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: lol -> "volte" ;)
21:56 <@scarabeus> ah
21:56 <@scarabeus> sdflhsdlfgksdhs
21:56 * bonsaikit  still isn't coherent
21:56 <+wired> jmbsvicetto: i agree, i was refering to env switching, not symlink management
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: ok
21:57 <+Sput> bonsaikitten: nobody was talking about voting, you are supposed to do a little volte...
21:57 <+reavertm> I like the idea in general
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: what can we do to start the work?
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> (since you are our cmake expert)
21:58 <@alexxy> write module for eselect
21:58 <@scarabeus> alexxy: that might be actualy last point
21:58 <@bonsaikitten> Sput: re-volt-ing?
21:58 <+reavertm> yeah, that's the magic part
21:58 <+wired> eselect is probably the last of our issues
21:58 <+reavertm> me expert? no..
21:59 <@scarabeus> reavertm: yes you are our expert :]
21:59 <+reavertm> besides I can't answer about this off the top of my head right away
21:59 <@scarabeus> ok who is willing to work on this:
21:59 <@scarabeus> it is more upstream than gentoo
21:59 <@scarabeus> ?
21:59 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll have to look at it
22:00 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: can I nag you about cmake for this?
22:00 <+reavertm> I'll look into it
22:01 <@scarabeus> anyone else?
22:01 <@scarabeus> *doggyeyes*
22:01 <@scarabeus> or actualy *puppyeyes*
22:01 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Thanks for your offer
22:01 <@scarabeus> that sad look :]
22:01 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i will be quite fine with patch cooperation
22:01 <@scarabeus> :P
22:01 * jmbsvicet  just made his first lead decision
22:01 <@jmbsvicetto> :P
22:01 <@scarabeus> :D
22:01 <@alexxy> heh =)
22:01 <@alexxy> btw
22:01 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ok and mine lead decision is delegat
22:02 <@scarabeus> e
22:02 <@scarabeus> so HTs what are you doing? :P
22:02 <@alexxy> whet will be with kde 3.5?
22:02 <@scarabeus> alexxy: that is on tampakrap, dont worry :]
22:02 <@tampakrap> mostly on carlo i'd say
22:02 <@jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: Anyway we can use your tinderbox for helping with the testing?
22:02 <@alexxy> there still parts of 3.5.7 3.58 3.5.9 and 3.510
22:03 <@yngwin> i'd say drop 3.5.{7,8}
22:03 <@yngwin> and stabilize .10 asap
22:03 <@scarabeus> ok that is good idea
22:03 <@scarabeus> get rid of 7.8
22:03 <@jmbsvicetto> yeah, but we need to check arches keywords
22:03 <@scarabeus> the arch teams has plenty time up to now to stable 3.5.9 on all needed arch
22:03 <+reavertm> stabilize 3.5.10 with revbumping kde-misc to be installed in /usr/kde/3.5?
22:03 <@scarabeus> yep
22:04 <@alexxy> yep
22:04 <@alexxy> but 3.5.8 is monolitic
22:04 <@alexxy> last monolitic release
22:04 <@scarabeus> that is no problem
22:04 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: 3.5.9
22:04 <@scarabeus> and 3.5.9 is mono to
22:04 <@alexxy> so we can drop it =)
22:04 <@jmbsvicetto> 3.5.10 was teh first release without monos
22:05 <@jmbsvicetto> we need to check arch keywords as at least mips will probably lose all keywords
22:05 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well since mips is only ~ and they had actualy pretty long time to do it up to now...
22:06 <@scarabeus> but ok, lets poke them
22:06 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: let's talk to them
22:06 <@alexxy> heh
22:06 <@alexxy> i can test kde on ~mips
22:06 *  reavertm  has his own 3 agenda points on the list
22:06 <@alexxy> =)
22:06 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: actualy alexxy can do it :]
22:06 <@scarabeus> late
22:06 <@scarabeus> :D
22:07 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: are you in the mips arch team?
22:07 <@alexxy> seems they add me
22:07 <@alexxy> =)
22:07 <@alexxy> i have mips machine @work
22:07 <@alexxy> running gentoo
22:07 <@jmbsvicetto> Good :)
22:07 <@alexxy> also i have premison to add arm keywords
22:07 <@alexxy> =)
22:08 <+wired> so our kde4 upstream patches goal is to patch cmake to build/install everything version-prefixed with version-suffixed binaries?
22:08 <@scarabeus> alexxy: ok i delegate this point to you :]
22:08 <@scarabeus> ok one last thing from me
22:08 <@scarabeus> cooperating with reasonable distributions in patches sharing
22:09 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: i'll test kde:4.2 on mips
22:09 <@scarabeus> reasonable as debian for example
22:09 <@scarabeus> not as suse
22:09 <@hwoarang> scarabeus: like?
22:09 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: ok, thanks
22:09 <@scarabeus> hwoarang: like they have upstream and downstream patches we would like so we use them
22:09 <+Sput> you mean: distros backporting features from 4.3 trunk to 4.1 stable are not reasonable? :)
22:09 <@scarabeus> and in return we share our patches
22:09 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: We can work with any distro - it all depends on their work ;)
22:09 <@scarabeus> for that i wrote this
22:09 <@scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/patches-glep.html
22:09 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i know
22:10 <@scarabeus> but i think we should make our patches nicely accessable like debian do
22:10 <+dagger_> I just came back home ;(
22:10 <@scarabeus> dagger_: bad for ya :]
22:10 <+reavertm> we use sed :P
22:10 <+Sput> System Message: ERROR/3 (patches-glep.txt, line 65)
22:10 <+Sput>  Unexpected indentation.
22:10 <+Sput> coool :
22:10 <@scarabeus> i know
22:10 <+Sput> :)
22:10 <@scarabeus> it is not finished
22:11 <@scarabeus> christ why i showed it to you
22:11 <@scarabeus> i thought that somebody start complaining
22:11 <+Sput> :D
22:11 <@scarabeus> notes for this one will be accepted on my mail for now
22:11 <@scarabeus> until i get it into some reasonable shape for anouncing
22:12 <@hwoarang> your abstract idea is quite resonable
22:12 <@hwoarang> have you talked about this with other distro dudes?
22:12 <@tampakrap> we had a small chat with a debian-kde guy at fosdem
22:12 <@scarabeus> yep i talked with kde
22:12 <@scarabeus> debina
22:12 <@scarabeus> craaap
22:13 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: You'll want to talk to infra and security teams about your proposal
22:13 <@scarabeus> yes i will do it
22:13 <@scarabeus> when i finish it
22:13 <@scarabeus> :P
22:13 <@jmbsvicetto> hehe
22:13 <@scarabeus> i dont want to come there with my hands empty
22:13 <@scarabeus> i would feel lame
22:14 <@scarabeus> so you know that i am on this one
22:14 <@scarabeus> that is everything from my side
22:14 <@scarabeus> anyone what do you have to discuss
22:14 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Did we cover all business in the agenda?
22:15 <@scarabeus> the things i pointed out
22:15 <@scarabeus> but this month i didnt get notes from others
22:15 <@scarabeus> (short time)
22:15 <+reavertm> ok... pykde4?
22:15 <@scarabeus> that is why i ask now
22:15 <@scarabeus> that bonsaikitten said that he will look on it
22:15 <@scarabeus> last meeting
22:15 <@scarabeus> :D
22:15 <+reavertm> that's the problem :)
22:16 <+reavertm> ok, another one
22:16 <+reavertm> what about non-SLOTted sets?
22:16 <@alexxy> btw
22:16 <@alexxy> when sets will be added to tree?
22:16 <+reavertm> I'd propose to remove them or made symlinks -> @kdebase -> @kdebase-4.2 and so on
22:17 <@tampakrap> are the symlinks valid?
22:17 <+reavertm> because unSLOTtted sets pulll all versions from every SLOT
22:17 <+reavertm> (in overlay)
22:17 <+reavertm> alexxy no
22:17 <+reavertm> never :)
22:17 <+reavertm> tampakrap why they coudn't be?
22:17 <@scarabeus> reavertm: good idea
22:18 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: That needs more time
22:18 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: we need to get an agreement about it
22:18 <@alexxy> ohh
22:18 <@alexxy> =(
22:18 <@tampakrap> reavertm: i don't know, i'm just asking :)
22:18 <@scarabeus> tampakrap: it works
22:18 <@yngwin> i guess that means at least waiting till portage 2.2.0 final release
22:18 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: the unversioned set should match the last version
22:19 <@tampakrap> last version of portage kde or of snapshots?
22:19 <+reavertm> yes
22:19 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: wait, you want them to have slotted deps? They can't
22:19 <+reavertm> those would be symlinks to latest set (but versioned one)
22:19 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto it simplyfies upgrade
22:19 <@alexxy> yep
22:20 <+reavertm> I want unslotted sets to be removed or changed to symlinks to corresponding slotted sets
22:20 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The unversioned deps should match the last version with sed s/:.*$//
22:20 <@alexxy> but unversioned sets should point to latest in tree slot
22:21 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: We need/want users to run the unversioned sets for installing - thus it can't have slotted deps
22:21 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto wait wait
22:21 <+reavertm> there would be @kdebase set - the only difference would be, it would be symlink to @kdebase-4.2
22:22 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: but that would mean it would have a kdebase-startkde:4.2 dep
22:22 <@tampakrap> aka latest portage version
22:22 <+reavertm> how are deps related?
22:22 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I'm thinking :P
22:22 <+reavertm> they would be symlinks to latest portage version
22:23 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I understand what you're trying to do. It might be the easiest option and it might even work
22:23 <+reavertm> (just like they are now) - but with SLOT definition so that we actually pull only that slot
22:23 < Enrico[ITA]> hi guys! if here there is some dev of kde-testing overlay there are some missing deps in kde-3.5.keywords file: kde-base/kde-i18n:3.5    ~kde-base/dcoppython-3.5.10   (and app-pda/libopensync but this is not part of kde ^^)
22:23 <@jmbsvicetto> Enrico[ITA]: we're in the middle of a meeting. Stick around and we can talk about it later
22:24 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: ok, I think I can live with it
22:24 <@tampakrap> i agree with that too
22:24 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto well, it doesn't change anything from user perspective
22:24 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: my concern was that we might be restricting users to a specific slot
22:24 < Enrico[ITA]> jmbsvicetto: oh don't warry it is not a huge issue ^^. but ok i can wait no problem ^^
22:24 <@scarabeus> yeah it should work
22:24 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: that should be working correctly
22:25 <@scarabeus> the update with this
22:25 <@scarabeus> iirc the behavior portage does
22:25 <+reavertm> well, we would be responsible for managing those symlinks in overlay
22:25 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm / scarabeus: yes, I see it should work
22:25 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: hmm, I do hope to get those sets in the tree - one day, one day
22:26 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: actually, if/when zmedico gets to re-work the sets, we might just have unversioned sets
22:26 <+reavertm> yeah
22:26 < Enrico[ITA]> well since you are in the middle of a meeting think about mark kde 3.5.10 as stable (and maybe even kde4.2!!!!) well i'm just kidding don't ban me ihihihi :P
22:26 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: or we would, if upstream stopped playing with moving apps between tarballs and renaming apps
22:26 < Enrico[ITA]> i don't speak no more promise ^^
22:27 <+reavertm> well, it's up to us how we split packagees jmbsvicetto :)
22:27 *  reavertm  likes good refactoring
22:27 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: we'll have to follow the work being done for 4.3
22:27 <@jmbsvicetto> :)
22:28 <@tampakrap> that's why snapshots and :live are :)
22:28 <@tampakrap> we were following 4.2 pretty well if you recall
22:28 <@jmbsvicetto> yes, but they're talking about splitting packages for 4.3
22:29 <@jmbsvicetto> They seem willing to break apps, but not libs
22:29 <@jmbsvicetto> I think we should probably rethink the way we split libs and kdebase-runtime/kdebase-workspace
22:29 <@alexxy> why?
22:29 <@tampakrap> so what? i rebuild live every two days i follow changes
22:30 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: we probably don't need to split it up so much
22:30 <+reavertm> probably
22:30 <@alexxy> well i think current split are pretty well =)
22:30 <+reavertm> I'd vote for debian-like splitting scheme
22:31 <+reavertm> they split kdepim completely (like we do) but kdebase-workspace /runtime not that much
22:31 <@alexxy> reavertm: what it looks like?
22:31 <@tampakrap> ok i'll have a look at this
22:31 <+reavertm> (as those apps need to be installed for kde to work anyway)
22:31 <+reavertm> (they split plasma from kdelibs - for now reason whatsoever)
22:32 <@alexxy> hmmm
22:33 <+reavertm> ok, and I have another idea - drop kdepimlibs from DEPEND in eclass
22:33 <@alexxy> last time i take a look at debian it was using kde 2.x or 1.x dont remember
22:33 <+reavertm> I made alittle research and there are just some components that actually need it
22:34 <+reavertm> and plenty of people crying aabout mysql deps (akonadi server is pulled by kdepimlibs)
22:34 <+reavertm> alexxy well... you can look at Kubuntu...
22:34 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: seems like aseigo was willing to split plasma from kdelibs too
22:34 <+reavertm> it's debian afterall
22:34 <@tampakrap> upstream is going to import other dbs as well
22:34 <+reavertm> tampakrap any evidence?
22:34 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: if we can drop it, we should
22:34 <@tampakrap> fosdem talks :)
22:34 <@jmbsvicetto> (kdepimlibs)
22:34 <+reavertm> apart tahat techbase article saying that itis possible to implement but not planned?
22:35 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: s/import/support/ ?
22:35 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto yeah, we can
22:35 <+reavertm> I've made a list for kde-base stuff that needs it (I was grepping KdepimLibs in cmakelistx.txt in tarballs
22:36 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: ok, I'll look at it
22:36 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto no, you "encourage" kitten to take care of pykde4 :)
22:36 <@jmbsvicetto> hehe
22:37 * jmbsvicet  picks up the whip and calls for bonsaikitten
22:37 <@jmbsvicetto> kitten, kitten
22:38 <@scarabeus> :D
22:38 <@scarabeus> ouka i am back
22:38 <@scarabeus> what i sleft
22:38 <@scarabeus> (sorry i feel really dizzy today)
22:39 <+MrRat> reavertm: yes more db support is coming for akonadi
22:39 <+MrRat> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Akonadi_FAQ
22:40 <@jmbsvicetto> What are we still missing for today?
22:40 <+MrRat> a crazy hack at fixing amarok2 for qt-4.5
22:40 <@tampakrap> yes, me and scarabeus saw it at fosdem talk of the debian kde packager
22:41 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i dont know
22:41 <@scarabeus> i dont  have anything for adding
22:41 <@scarabeus> anyone else something?
22:41 <@ hwoarang> yngwin do we have something to add?
22:42 <@scarabeus> hwoarang, yngwin: actualy you two could you test qt-4.5 on kde-4.2 and spread patches? :]
22:42 <@ yngwin|2> kde4 doesnt work here
22:42 <@tampakrap> y?
22:42 <@hwoarang> works here though
22:43 <@hwoarang> scarabeus who this thing gonna work?
22:43 <@alexxy> http://dpaste.com/119912/
22:43 <@hwoarang> gentoo qt <-> gentoo kde <-> kde upstream
22:43 <@alexxy> list of kde-3.5.[45678] ebuilds
22:43 <+wired> i can help on qt4.5/kde4.2 testing :)
22:43 <@hwoarang> we need to CC kde@gentoo.org on every kde4+qt4-5 related issue
22:43 <@   alexxy> yngwin: hwoarang: plasma segfaults with qt 4.5 if you dont recompile it
22:44 <@alexxy> same for knotify
22:44 <@hwoarang> there is a topic on kde forums
22:44 <@hwoarang> kde-4.2+qt-4.5
22:44 <@tampakrap> recompile qt or knotify?
22:44 <@alexxy> so you two should add it to ewarn
22:44 <@hwoarang> maybe it will be good to monitor it
22:44 <@alexxy> recompile knotify and plasma-workspace
22:45 <@hwoarang> alexxy: we need to narrow down what should be rebuild
22:45 <@hwoarang> if something fails
22:45 <+reavertm> I guess I'm out of ideas for today as well
22:45 <@hwoarang> and i think that our ewarn message is quite clean
22:45 <@hwoarang> "if something fails, rebuild it"
22:45 <@alexxy> yep
22:45 <@jmbsvicetto> alexxy: the kde packages segfault after qt upgrade is an old issue
22:45 <@tampakrap> are these talks still on the meeting?
22:45 <@alexxy> but you only mention kdelibs
22:45 <@hwoarang> this is what every qt package states on pkg_postinst
22:45 <@alexxy> =)
22:46 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: i know
22:46 <@hwoarang> if this solution is valid i ll add it
22:46 <@alexxy> but for 3.5 only kdelibs was needed to be recompiled
22:46 <@hwoarang> but there is a report on forums that libplasma+ plasma-workspace didn solve it
22:46 <@alexxy> for 4.2  its at least kdelibs and plasma-workspace
22:47 <+MrRat> if sets were in portage an @kde-4.2 would solve it
22:47 <+MrRat> :P
22:47 <@alexxy> he he
22:47 <@hwoarang> so , from my part i ll CC kde@g.o alias on every mixed kde4+qt4.5 bug
22:47 <@hwoarang> to work it together
22:47 <@scarabeus> http://pastebin.ca/1335397
22:48 <@scarabeus> reformat add on cvs
22:48 <@hwoarang> i wish i could do it on bugs.kde.org too
22:48 <@scarabeus> i am sick and going to sleep
22:48 <@scarabeus> i hope i wont be needed today anymore
22:48 <@tampakrap> i guess meeting is over
22:49 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: You should end the meeting then ;)
22:49 <@jmbsvicetto> hwoarang: what are you missing in bgo ?
22:49 <@tampakrap> you are the leader
22:49 <@hwoarang> mmm
22:49 <@jmbsvicetto> ah, bko
22:50 <@hwoarang> every time i try to add a gentoo alias
22:50 <@hwoarang> it slaps me
22:50 <@hwoarang> ah
22:50 * jmbsvicet  puts the hat and officialy ends the meeting
22:50 <@hwoarang> no on bgo
22:50 <@hwoarang> on bugs.kde.org
22:50 <@jmbsvicetto> yeah, I noticed it after I asked
22:50 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: just one issue before you go, if you have 2 minutes
22:52 <@scarabeus> ook
22:53 <@scarabeus> listening
22:53 < arachnist> so, since the meeting has ended
22:53 < arachnist> is there a nice, working networkmanager plasmoid for kde-4.2? :>
22:53 < arachnist> preferably with an ebuild
22:54 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About the meetings, do you want me to start doing the preparation work or would you be willing to keep doing it?
22:54 <@scarabeus> i am willing to keep doing it if you want :]
22:54 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: You've been doing a great job and I don't want to take away that pleasure from you ;)
22:54 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: thanks
22:54 <@scarabeus> it is not pleasure ;D
22:54 <@scarabeus> but i will do it
22:54 <@jmbsvicetto> Hehe
22:54 <@scarabeus> since nobody else wants to do it :]
22:55 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, meeting in 1 month?
22:55 <@scarabeus> arachnist: there is networkmanager-applet-9999 in kde-testing
22:55 <@jmbsvicetto> I think we should review the date as I missed the council meeting today :\
22:55 <+MrRat> arachnist: networkmanager-applet ebuild is in kde-testing, but in short, networkmanager nor the applet work well.
22:56 <+MrRat> arachnist: use wicd
22:56 < arachnist> wicd?
22:56 <+MrRat> yes
22:56 < arachnist> it needs gtk
22:56 <@scarabeus> yup 1 per month
22:56 <@scarabeus> feel free to change the date
22:56 < arachnist> there;s a reason i have gtk+ in package mask
22:56 < Pesa> may i ask if you could remove the new hard dep on qt-phonon for Qt 4.5, making it optional?
22:56 <@scarabeus> i just randomly picked
22:56 < arachnist> there's*
22:56 <+MrRat> wicd works great and you can start wicd-client in kde4's ststem settings autostart and it works great
22:57 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
22:57 < arachnist> not a very valid one, but there is ;>
22:57 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I think we might opt for the 1st Thursday of the month
22:57 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll ask in the alias/ml
22:57 <@scarabeus> that is already in there or not?
22:57 <@scarabeus> :D
22:57 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, I'm going to eat something
22:58 <@yngwin> Pesa: there is no hard dep on qt-phonon
22:58 <@scarabeus> on the first Wednesday/Thursday of every month at 19:00 UTC
22:58 <@scarabeus> indeed i wrote this ;}