[21:59:58] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Gentoo meetings | KDE Team meeting | topics: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222007/" [22:00:43] -*- ABCD is here [22:00:45] lets get slowly started [22:00:51] so step 0: roll call [22:00:51] -*- dilfridge is here [22:00:52] -*- wired suprizingly here [22:00:52] who is around [22:01:02] --> krytzz (~quassel@quassel/user/krytzz) has joined #gentoo-meetings [22:01:17] thats all? [22:01:22] lol [22:01:34] --> deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has joined #gentoo-meetings [22:01:37] -*- ABCD is here (again, because I said it before roll call started) [22:01:38] w00t? [22:01:50] wot? [22:01:52] ok, before anyone brings up any topic [22:01:56] let me say just one thing [22:02:39] my commit access will be disabled starting this month June 2010 and will be re-enabled July 2011, as I will be doing an MBA that will take most of my time away, besides I was promoted to team leader in Flumotion and that adds me even more workload [22:02:48] said that, good luck guys :) [22:02:58] deathwing00: cheers, and happy birthday :] [22:03:01] you really think you won't have time for 1 commit? hehe [22:03:15] good luck to you too :) [22:03:35] --> mschiff (~mschiff@d000042.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings [22:03:37] :) [22:03:38] !herd kde [22:03:38] thanks [22:03:38] (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, tampakrap, tgurr, wired [22:03:43] wake up rest of you [22:03:47] there is more than 10 people [22:04:16] scarabeus: laters then :) [22:04:24] I'll still be around in jabber ;) [22:04:25] hmm... time for small talk... [22:04:27] <-- deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has quit (Quit: Leaving.) [22:04:47] ok, lets get started, and i will kick their asses later [22:05:02] so 4.4 and its stabilisation [22:05:08] rrrrrrringdingding! [22:05:12] the bug is not moving anyhow promisingly [22:05:36] many things are there since 4.3.x times [22:06:10] yes the main quesiton is [22:06:16] how about we put 4.4.4 to main tree [22:06:21] and ask for stabilisation in 1 week [22:06:25] no matter what is left [22:06:43] sounds fine to me - 4.4.4 should just be bugfixes on 4.4.3, right? :D [22:06:46] but basic thing i would like to say is that i would like to see designated team that would handle the stables [22:06:49] probably not better nor worse than 4.4.3 [22:06:52] they will run the stable [22:07:05] and will be responsible for proactively stabling and pestering us all for fixing stable bugs [22:07:12] -*- dilfridge hears some coconuts in the background [22:07:48] well who else besides me runs 4.4.[34] here still? [22:08:15] i have 4.4.3 [22:08:16] sorry, got distracted [22:08:16] :] [22:08:18] -*- ABCD doesn't because his hard drive broke [22:08:28] jmbsvicetto: by accident you dont run stable huh? ;} [22:09:40] I runn 4.4.4 [22:09:46] also good [22:09:48] So any other ideas how to handle this situation? [22:09:51] run* [22:10:09] well the only other alternative would be to stable 4.4.3 [22:10:10] scarabeus: about the 1 week we must be ready for arch teams to tell us they'll wait the usual month [22:10:31] nah, they wont get to that bug before the month will come anyway [22:10:37] in any case, I think the most important issue is the deps. Are we sure all 4.4.4 deps are marked stable? [22:10:50] expect amd64 and x86 which mostly will do what we ask them [22:10:52] did the deps change from 4.4.3? [22:11:17] dependecies were not changed [22:11:22] ABCD: 4.4.3 isn't stable, right? iirc, the latest stable is 4.3.5 [22:11:29] yes [22:11:34] scarabeus: and no, I don't run stable [22:11:55] also, what about kdepim? Will that only affect 4.5? [22:11:58] jmbsvicetto: i think our problem is that we all rock on ~ or even further [22:12:01] -*- dilfridge has a fully stable x86 chroot rotting somewhere [22:12:10] jmbsvicetto: kdepim is affected only 4.5 and it is next topic :] [22:12:20] jmbsvicetto: it isn't, but if its deps were stable, then there shouldn't be much of an issue [22:12:21] dilfridge: sadly you are not dev yet whom can fill those requests :] [22:12:30] scarabeus: that's to be expected [22:12:35] (us running ~) [22:12:41] yes [22:12:49] but then we would expect archies to fill stablerequests [22:12:56] we have tons of various packages just in ~ [22:13:00] but anyway ~ is better than ~+pmasked [22:13:03] because nobody ever bothered to fill the bugs [22:13:15] it's up to us to ask for packages to be marked stable, but it's up to arch teams to take care of it [22:13:31] (and to wait for 30days...) [22:13:36] yes, and who else would have better motivation to ask for stables than people running it [22:13:40] I'm planning to add a request for amarok soon [22:13:56] but I need to check the status of the deps [22:14:16] I'll probably go for 2.3.0.90 or 2.3.1 directly and then drop all the older versions [22:14:50] sounds sane :] [22:14:56] I'm also likely to merge amarok and amarok-utils as I don't see any interest on amarok-utils [22:15:10] so i guess my plan with arch team wont work since we dont have anyone interested in it :P [22:15:21] so only question left is which version 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 [22:15:31] devs plz pick :] [22:15:35] jmbsvicetto: sounds also sane :] [22:15:39] well, most of us already have the blessing to do the work for amd64 [22:16:05] I'd say 4.4.4 if we can convince the archies to do it in 7 days instead of 30 [22:16:06] at this point, we can probably target 4.4.4 [22:16:16] ok [22:16:28] 3 out of 5 attending devs [22:16:32] added to summary [22:16:37] next topic then [22:16:40] kdepim 4.5 [22:16:45] ugh [22:16:49] ABCD: past history has showed that it takes a bit more than 1 or 2 weeks since we plan to ask for a package to get marked stable and to the request get to the arch teams ;) [22:17:12] i also vote for 4.4.4 [22:17:19] btw we can stable amd64 ourselves [22:17:26] --> raxas (~raxas@charybdis-1-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #gentoo-meetings [22:17:28] besides, has anyone hit any regression from 4.4.3 to 4.4.4? [22:17:28] yes yes [22:17:33] no [22:17:47] one last thing before we move on to kdepim [22:17:48] I haven't, but I didn't check the kdm user thing yet [22:17:56] No regressions from 4.4.3->4.4.4 here [22:18:14] we will probably be drowned in akonadi problems when 4.4.x gets stable [22:18:25] dilfridge: aware of that :/ [22:18:29] hmm, I did restart kdm on my desktop and it's working, so I don't think that's an issue afterall [22:18:41] (i was always too lazy to file a bug, but on my 3 machines it never started working properly) [22:18:57] -*- scarabeus does not even have kdepim installed [22:19:00] too big pile of... [22:19:06] anyway [22:19:10] we have 3 options at our hands [22:19:12] I like(d) it... [22:19:15] dilfridge: if you mean about kdepim, I don't have it installed locally :P [22:19:22] ship kdepim from trunk with 4.5 releases, our tarballs [22:19:30] make 4.5 work with 4.4 kdepim [22:19:36] or finaly package enterprise branch [22:19:48] scarabeus: Perhaps we should start by making 2 questions: [22:19:59] 1. Which devs care or want to "mess" with kdepim [22:20:06] second is probably the easiest, as all distros wil do that right? [22:20:32] krytzz: second is indeed easiest [22:20:39] 2. and depending on that we can just start a vote on the forums/mls/* explaining the issue to the users and getting a "vote" on how to proceed [22:20:42] jmbsvicetto: alexxy was interested but sadly is not here [22:20:55] i am definitely not interested in kdepim [22:20:59] if that part of kde disappeared [22:21:01] i would be happy man [22:21:10] among with semantic-desktop team [22:21:11] :D [22:21:21] I don't plan to touch kdepim too [22:21:23] -*- dilfridge would probably skip that release then as he need kdepim [22:21:42] dilfridge: pst, we switched to claws and thunderbird, they works [22:21:49] hehe [22:22:01] I've always used FF and TB, so no change for me ;) [22:22:11] ok so seems noone is interested in this topic [22:22:18] so lets postrpone it, i will sent mail to alias [22:22:23] and i will pray that someone reply [22:22:24] scarabeus: what about my proposal? [22:22:27] what about reavertm, he did some work with pim :p [22:22:37] jmbsvicetto: the forums are good idea, but first we need to pass step 1 [22:22:43] scarabeus: we could set a plan like the following: [22:23:09] 1. give developers one week to express what they feel about kdepim and to see if anyone volunteers to work on it [22:23:43] 2. if that fails or we can't find anyone willing to do it, make a public announcement about the issue, explain it and give a few options to users: [22:24:11] 2.1 have interested parties show up and work in the overlay to get it done - (what can be given as option to the community) [22:24:18] ok [22:24:25] 2.2 have users vote for us to just ignore kdepim until it gets working [22:24:26] will 4.5 be released one month afterwards? in that case you could postpone the whole 4.5 release for 1 month? [22:24:26] from what I heard, kdepim may show back up in 4.5.1 or 4.5.2 [22:24:28] that sounds like nice sumup [22:24:37] 2.3 give the above 3 options for someone to work on [22:25:23] ABCD: with shitload of bugs [22:25:40] that's beside the point :D [22:25:41] jmbsvicetto: added your approach to summary, since it sounds like only sane :] [22:25:45] that's what 4.5.3456 will be for [22:26:02] koffice-2.2 [22:26:09] dilfridge: i saw you working on it :] [22:26:18] yes and it works afaik [22:26:21] That's another thing I don't plan to work on [22:26:24] so wanna be designated maintainer? [22:26:38] puh... I'm not actively using it so bad choice... [22:26:53] (whenever I tried ooo did the job better) [22:27:13] but I can look after it a bit yes [22:27:33] scarabeus: we could perhaps use this chance to ask for volunteers to work on koffice and kdepim [22:27:50] (not that I expect a horde to show up) [22:28:19] well we need 2.2.0 in main tree stabilised asap [22:28:26] because 2.1 is seriously useless [22:28:29] I'd rather volunteer for some kdepim stuff than koffice... [22:28:49] :DDD [22:28:55] <-- brk (~brk@r9dq22.net.upc.cz) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:28:57] dilfridge: s/and/and or/ [22:29:00] lets try same approach as for kdepim then [22:29:27] NEEEXT :D [22:29:44] so dagger sent me mail [22:30:01] if we would accept pulse patches [22:30:01] that makes it work in kmix [22:30:02] for now on we have policy that we dont backport patches [22:30:41] so lets vote about wheter to accept patches or be strictly what upstream sends [22:30:57] scarabeus: since when? we always tried to follow upstream as closely as possible, but if someone is willing to apply a back-port and to keep it working, why not? [22:31:03] -*- alexxy here =) [22:31:07] just write upstream/distro-patches based on what you want (only devs) [22:31:15] jmbsvicetto: acutaly we declined quite few backports [22:31:39] jmbsvicetto: for konsole in example [22:31:42] as long as we don't want to do it and there's no one in the team willing to do it, it's ok by me [22:31:57] scarabeus: iirc, ssuominem applied that patch again [22:32:27] I don't follow commits closely, but by reading the bugzilla mail, I think a few have been applied [22:33:12] so lets keep status "if you keep it backported and polished you can have it..."? [22:33:17] backports++ from me if they fix stuff ;) [22:33:32] scarabeus: together with the old "you break it, you fix it" ;) [22:33:43] jmbsvicetto thats a must :P [22:34:05] ok added to summary [22:34:13] now the topic that is quite important [22:34:23] oh and about pulseaudio, I no longer care!! /me is using phonon-vlc :) [22:34:37] lol [22:34:42] so inactive people in team [22:34:45] what the f**k is everyone doing [22:34:51] there is 17 people in the team [22:34:54] -*- jmbsvicetto goes hidding in the back [22:34:55] ... [22:34:56] :D [22:35:14] scarabeus: I guess the other 16 guys are very active :P [22:35:14] on this meeting we have star attendance of 5 developers [22:35:24] very very active [22:35:24] well [22:35:40] he he =) [22:35:50] scarabeus: you're to blame for this instance [22:35:58] you chose FRIDAY EVENING [22:36:05] failday for meeting :p [22:36:09] i dont mind attendance for meeting [22:36:11] scarabeus: talking for myself, I took a lot of work when things were stalled, then you guys all started doing so much, I got used not needing to do too much ;) [22:36:16] its beerday [22:36:16] =) [22:36:24] but there is almost no activity on tree or ovelray by team members in kde area [22:36:29] right... only people without friends are online now [22:36:38] not counting few active ones [22:36:45] krytzz: thanks :P [22:36:48] so since joining team is really simple [22:36:50] \o/ [22:37:10] i would like to ask all those who are not really into working at least bit on kde remove themselves from herd [22:37:17] they are mostly active in other areas of gentoo [22:37:31] scarabeus: Now you know how fun it is to have the pointy hat ;) [22:37:36] and it would at least show me list of people i can count in [22:37:56] scarabeus: thats not going to work, most of them aren't even here :P [22:38:11] and i will forceremove everyone who dont have at least 1 commint in last 2 months [22:38:17] wired: it will be on summary [22:38:36] they can join in back and be active [22:38:51] or just commit here and there with our permission as other nonteam devs do now [22:39:14] bonsaikitten: that counts you too ;] [22:39:35] scarabeus: ok, let me be clear about my commitment: I plan to do amarok as long as no one takes it out of me, I'm interested in phonon-vlc for the moment, I also have an interest on kdenetwork. I try to look at bugs and I get interested on stuff sent to packagers. I do however have a few other areas where there aren't active people on, so they sometimes take priority [22:39:40] <-- ABCD (~abcd@gentoo/developer/abcd) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [22:40:03] jmbsvicetto: you do commits in packages that have herd kde [22:40:19] jmbsvicetto: there are people that didnt do any commit in those 2 named months back any of that [22:40:21] scarabeus: yeah, that's fine with me [22:40:23] yeah, but I know I don't do many commits [22:40:26] (i did some research) [22:40:33] -*- alexxy plays with beta/rc/snaphsots stuff [22:40:34] jmbsvicetto: but you do something :] [22:40:34] I'm mostly honorific member ;) [22:40:51] the last thing i did was fix koffice 2.1.81 [22:40:51] ;p [22:40:55] there is thin line between something and nothing [22:41:27] -*- jmbsvicetto gives a swift kick in bonsaikitten's honorific *slacker* member :P [22:42:04] jmbsvicetto: you sound fat! [22:42:08] you know I was looking at the slacker definition the other day and it said also known as bonsaikitten or patrick [22:42:11] ;p [22:42:12] bonsaikitten: :P [22:42:22] wired: hehe [22:42:31] =) [22:42:50] ?D [22:42:52] ok [22:42:58] =P [22:42:59] wired: He has a bit to learn to catch some champs ;) [22:43:00] i guess that is all of mine topics [22:43:03] omg [22:43:04] so [22:43:08] you have something to discuss [22:43:19] http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222014/ [22:43:19] a 40 minutes meeting? O_O [22:43:23] also here is current summary [22:43:25] my 50 cents about kdepim [22:43:29] i planned 10 minutes for each [22:43:34] we were faster [22:43:52] i plan to package tarballs for 4.5.0 [22:43:54] =) [22:44:14] nice [22:44:18] alexxy: that is mostly too late :P now you will have to work with others over mail : [22:44:19] ] [22:44:29] reavertm: what are you planning to do with the cmake-utils eclass and was there any reason for the revert? [22:45:52] alexxy: also remember that people will want to kill you if you blow up their mail client :D [22:46:03] 1 thingie, anyone did log? [22:46:06] for the log... [22:46:07] :] [22:46:12] i have just summary [22:46:14] sure [22:46:19] i have log [22:46:21] =) [22:46:45] so do i